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Dreadmetis

misc. sim iBlueYonder and Turbulent Design are not giving easy support for paid products

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Ok, I'm going public on this one cause so far the informations I have are BAD !

 

iBlueYonder (hello bill !) and Turbulent Design (hi Russel and Greg !) have both moved to  a new editor recently, in getting into OrbX licencing.

When I read the announce, I was pretty pleased because that would mean for the customer a better support Well, I was very wrong !

I've been a bit long to go to P3D 4.3 update (last time was hard enough :p), so I discovered the mess a bit late maybe, but read this !

The support has become a nightmare !

I bought Nantucket island from PC Aviator, which got support from JustFlight. I got 100$ burger from the iBlueYonder website. Almost at the same time. One I can get support (100$ burger runs) and I cannot get ANY SUPPORT so far for Nantucket island. I got an old archive from PC Aviator wich is not up to date, no option to gfet it from the official iBlueYonder website, and worst : the official answer from the studio is : "if you bought from our website we support you, if not, you're on your own, please buy our products a 2nd time from OrbX !" (I have translated the political tongue language used there)

I have the exact same problem with some Turbulent Design products : Angwin-Parret and L35 Big Bear I bought from JusfFlight are not updated on the JF store, the official website explains that "they have licencing changes" and the customer can go die or buy ! More politely of course, but it does say the same.

what are your call on these ? I know I could have done the quiet "I know some people bill and Greg, help me" but it seems to me that it would be very wrong to do that, instead of getting a decent and expected support !

 

In fact, I've been contacted by Bill very kindly (Russel sent me the other way...), but as I said : it is not easy, not streamlined, not normal ! And you will find some more testimonies from other customers from different shops/ sites...

Some exctracts :

Quote

Hello all,

As you are probably aware, L35 Big Bear City Airport has now been released via Orbx, therefore it will no long be on sale on the Turbulent Store.

Because of this, we will not be able to transfer third party purchases of L35 Big Bear City Airport to our store.

Quote

For the latest version of airports bought from third party stores, I recommend you contact the store you bought it from, as they should have the latest version.

If you did not purchase from the TD website, then like any other store, you will not be able to download your purchases from here.

If you wish to upgrade to the Orbx version, which has additional features, then you will need to purchase that from the Orbx website. As I said above, if you've bought from third party stores, it's out of Turbulent's control, as we're no longer selling these products on our website.

Thanks,
Russ

https://iblueyonder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=317

 

SOURCE INFO

DEVELOPER POST LINK :  

NEWS SITE ARTICLE LINK :  

Edited by Dreadmetis
Edit : adding "easy" to the title ;)

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Hi there,

This post is incredibly misleading. We announced that we will continue to support L35 and 2O3 from third party stores, and will bug fix if anyone brings up any faults. So yes, these products are still supported by us, and the third party installers should still be supported by any third party publisher. Anyone that purchased from a third party publisher can still use their product and can still submit support requests, which will be seen to.

Dreadmetis, in your post, you have quoted me in a specific thread, but you failed to quote my post that clearly stated that we still SUPPORT third party versions.

If anyone is interested in the full thread, please look here:

https://www.turbulentdesigns.co.uk/forum/topic/805-l35-transfer-from-3rd-parties/

However, we can not transfer your purchase over to the Orbx version, which has _additional_ features. Turbulent is an independent developer and does not have access to creating Orbx Store accounts/purchases.

Thanks,
Russ

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I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to post this, but the same morning you contacted me (this morning, in fact), I helped you take care of the problem and get fixed up. There's not much more I can do than that.  I'll add that while you've never asked me for assistance before, your email was aggressive, bordering on rude. You got service anyway.

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Well, first I am happy to read your direct answers to that, as you could imagine :) So in the right order : thank you for your time and consideration !

 

Then I have to explain what happened to me in details so you could understand my state of mind and my rightful anger (not at you directly guys, but really at the support I have been experimenting, exactly as said above !

 

1st : full reinstall of P3D up to date cause my last installation had problems.

2 I needed to get most, if not all of my addons reloaded, and you KNOW that can be a pita cause we have stuff all over the place ;)

3 I go to my different accounts and cool everything is working so far. That's the moment you still realize you have hours of reinstall, if not days ?

4 when arriving to your addons guys, well all started badly : PC Aviator and JustFlight provided me with old versions of your addons from a fresh download. And it so seemed that I HAD to get the last update from the official source which is iBlueYonder and Turbulent Design's site. The misanderstanding is even worse when you try to update from your applications (ex: TD terminal) that will send you to your site telling you that you are not registered/ you have no valid licence there... YOUR apps does not allow updates with paid products and that leaves an even badder feeling...

5 Arriving to your sites, 1st I was unable to get any update. Worst, the information you have on your sites are letting people think that you are pushing us to get an OrbX licence by repaying the addons. It is definitively not clear that you would get support for the old not from YOUR site versions of your products. And I insist : your sites does not provide support, which I could understand if it was clear enough that you supported retailers and provided them wil everything the end user need.

6 then you have the community, most of which think that you "must" register your old products on OrbX (which I have not asked for !!!) in order to get support, another misleading part.

 

I am really just a consumer, but I am still aware of some of my rights, and well, take my place for 10mns : getting support took me like 7 or more messages with 4 different parts, half a day, when all the other normal or "orbx users" will just have to launch a terminal or FTX central and get their updates no asking no pita no messaging and NO ANGER ?

I believe in rightful anger :) And intelligent people !

So now you have my point of view in a full state about all that mess wich is your responsibility I believe. But I am an understanding (and pretty active to argue I concurr ;) ) person I hope too ! So time to settle ?

the simpsons friend GIF

 

----

 

Some precisions on this : I have had some responses from JF, so far they provided me with a direct DL link to Nantucket island that may be the updated version (the PC Aviator one was wrong as said yesterday). They are checking if the TD files from their site are the good ones too and will get back to me.

Edited by Dreadmetis

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I understand why you might get frustrated with the run-around, but look at it from my point of view: I got an email from you yesterday morning, asking for support. I responded right away, and within hours (had to wait for your response verifying your purchase, since I don't have any access to PCAviator's sales database), I had sent you a link to the correct file. Done. Then later, I find this thread where you accuse me of bad customer service. Can you see how that might make me a little upset?

Developers need sales to survive, and that means finding as large an audience as possible. So we use a publisher that is well-connected in the community to sell our work. Of course, they take a cut of the sales,  but in general it's worth it to reach that audience. The trade off is we lose control over things like updates. I sent the P3D update for Nantucket to JF as soon as it was ready. They put it on their shop fairly quickly for their customers, but they in turn deal with a bunch of smaller stores like PCAviator. As far as I know, they sent the update to them too, but some (I'm looking at you, PCAviator) didn't bother to update the product for their customers. Believe me, it makes me just as unhappy as you that they won't do this simple thing in return for their percentage. 

That's why when I had the chance to rejoin Orbx and work with a team that is on top of this sort of thing, I jumped at it. FTX Central is a brilliant piece of software, and makes distribution a breeze - especially compared to the "toss the product into the wind and hope everyone does their job" approach we've had to rely on for so long. And since I control my own sales database from iBlueYonder's website, it was easy enough to strike a deal with Orbx to just migrate my customers over to their system.

The moral of the story: whenever possible, purchase directly from the developer on their site. Not only do they get a larger portion of the proceeds, but you're not relying on middle-men for support when things go pear-shaped.

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The moral of the story: whenever possible, purchase directly from the developer on their site. Not only do they get a larger portion of the proceeds, but you're not relying on middle-men for support when things go pear-shaped.

My point when I saw how easy it went with MinuteMan and Plum island, which was ported to OrbX for me !

Well I totally agree with me being hasty and impatient, and please accept my apologies for that.

Still, a good explanation well visible about all those specifics would have helped me understanding both your position and the person I should get in contact to to get support... The absence of response on the forums tend to confused me, and most of the responses I got were mostly "go to OrbX", which I understand why...

I really hope for a better structure for the whole flight sim hobby/ profession, and definitively the FTX platform, as well as products like DCTRY will be a blessing both for developers, distributors and consumers ! We need more stuff like that in the addon jungle !

 

machete GIF

Edited by Dreadmetis

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